This is something I wanted to share with the lifegroup, but probably won't be able to make it to lifegroup anymore as uni starts and I'm far far away with no car haha. So I thought I'd post it up here for those who read the blog. Comment and let me know your thoughts.
God is all knowing. God is always present within our lives. But is everything controlled by God?
It is a common debate about how God is to said to know everything, past present and future, a great Plan so to speak, and yet at the same time given us Free Will. Google it, and you'll find thousands of forums and websites dedicated to this one problem (okay, maybe not thousand, but I found a few).
It was also an aspect of God that I couldn't quite come to terms with either. The fact that everything was planned out, and the conflict between choosing but having the end result predetermined. So one day, I got the chance to go to another of my friend's life group and ask the question.
is he present in things like choices of toast and cereal?
is he present when we roll a ball off a table?
Often, when I had asked this question initially in the past, I'd get back a very disappointing, everything is included in God's plan for us. Even me tripping over the chair. And I could not accept this. It just didn't make sense, that things that WE did could be put on God. When we pass an exam, can it not be because we studied hard? Can it not be that God offer us the strength, wisdom and determination to study hard, but our own will allowed us to achieve such a score?
God has a plan for us all, yes. And with that plan for each individual, it all comes together into one big Plan for everything. But free will was given for a purpose. It's how we travel that path (or even the choice to go on that path).
Roamn 8:28 and we know that all things work together for good to them that loves God, to them who are the called according to (his) purpose.
If we use our free will to work with God, to further his plans, it will benefit us in the future. God's Plan will benefit all of mankind.
No, God does not set things up so you will choose the cereal. No, the toast did not magically look better than the cereal because God made it so. That choice is our free will. Yes, God did put that food there for you to make a choice. THAT is an act of God, and that is what we give thanks for every time we eat.
I think it is important for us to know exactly what we thank God for, and what we can owe to ourselves. Yes, we have many things to thank God for. He offers us wisdom, strength, comfort, guidance. We pray and honor him above all our else for it. But God did not simply give us good marks, or good jobs. We study to accept the wisdom, we persist with the strength he gives, we move on with his comfort and we listen and obey his guidance. It is our own free will that drive these.
there are 3 acts in this world. One by God, one by Satan, and one by man.
God is all knowing
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February 24, 2009 at 10:53 PM
I definitely agree with you Dave. However, I do believe there is a difference between pre-destination, and God's knowledge of the past, present and future. The two idea's can be either married or separated, depending on your views. If you don't believe in pre-destination (I hold this view)....just think of it like....choosing what flavour icecream you want. Vanilla or chocolate? You definitely have free will. But God knows before hand what you will select; you can change to and from...but God know's what you'll eventually end up with. Free will is the very essence of our hearts. God didn't want to create a family of robots who are programmed to love Him. When God created the world...it was good. He gave us free will...and with that he created the possibility that we would stray from Him. Man realized this possibility. When Adam sinned, God was shattered, kicking Adam out of the garden wasn't out of anger...more out of love. I think I'm getting off track here....
One interesting point you raised-When we pass an exam, can it not be because we studied hard? Can it not be that God offer us the strength, wisdom and determination to study hard, but our own will allowed us to achieve such a score?
I guess you just have to look at atheists and agnostics who have managed to achieve great things to see that yes it is possible to do things without God's strength. Darwin, Bertrand Russell, Massimo Pigliucci and Carl Sagan are atheists and are some of the greatest scientists of our time. However, I think it is important that we put God first in everything we do, even if we have bled sweat and tears to achieve what we have. Kaka (the Brazilian football player) signals to God and thanks him everytime he scores a goal. Yes, Kaka put in all those hours on the football pitch, perfecting his skills, but he still thanks God for every moment. I remember Mark Conner talking about this issue. He gave an analogy which I guess always helps. Say you want to get a car moving. You have either rocks or petrol that you can put into the car. Let's say you put the rocks in the car....we know that God can make the car run on rocks...but do you think He would??? No. We need to put in the correct inputs. If we put in the rocks and expect the car to run...are we testing God and His power?? It is ALL about the heart.
Read below for something I wrote last year, that looks at pre-destination etc.
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Another aspect which I think should be considered when attempting to answer this question is pre-destination. A massively contentious issue, but it does change how we look at the situation if we consider two differing viewpoints-
-if we do not believe in pre-destination (at the moment I hold this view), then the fact that the lady does not get a carpark is due to the amoral decisions made by people who have entered the carpark before her, and have chosen with their own free will to take up another carpark.
-if we do accept that pre-destination exists however, then one could definitely conclude that Christians do seem to accomodate for Gods actions; which I believe is true. Knowing that God moves in weird and mysterious ways, it is natural for us as human beings and Christians, who know and trust that God is in control of ours lives, to seek an explanation as to why God actually allows things to happen to us. Take for example why God allows natural disasters to happen, when he could easily stop them (which is another whole question in itself). Check out Jess Manusama's talk. We try to determine why things are happening based on our understanding of God. It is exactly how scientists come up with scientific theory. We have a source (God) and an effect from that source (not getting a carpark), and we have a framework with which we answer questions (our beliefs). Just like scientists, Christians will naturally ask questions about the reason as to how and why the effect has actually taken place, and come up with answers which fits into our beliefs and relieves our curiosity behind the reasons for the work of Jesus Christ.
Hope that makes sense!!! I love these apologetic type questions!! They are great faith builders!! Keep them coming!!! -
March 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM
hey dave.
lol i just wrote something. but i'm gonna scrap that. i'll refer to this bit:
"It just didn't make sense, that things that WE did could be put on God. When we pass an exam, can it not be because we studied hard? Can it not be that God offer us the strength, wisdom and determination to study hard, but our own will allowed us to achieve such a score?"
I think the main issue with this is just the emphasis. The statement "because we studied hard" emphasizes the all the effort that we put in. But this is contradicted by your next statement; if God really did "offer us the strength, wisdom and determination to study hard" it was only a matter of us walking in obedience and accepting what he had provided us with. A mere choice.
But with that, I understand the perspective that you are coming from; it is "hard" to walk in obedience (and for that we want to take credit) - even the bible says that (Matthew 7:13-14). However, lasting obedience to God can only occur through His grace, and living empowered by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:13)
So effectively it just boils down to just us making that choice lol! and continually making that choice.
Hope that wasn't too mumbo jumbo for you, please ask if it is xP
Dave
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